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Stu255's avatar

One point that jumps of the page here for me, and it's very common when reading WWII material.

These people are not engaged in science. These are scientists practising engineering. This was not obvious at the time, but it is glaringly obvious from 2024.

There is a scientific method which is...

1). Identify a natural phenomena that cannot be explained.

2). Formulate a question based on this observation.

3). Hypothesis an explanation to the question.

4). Experimentation to test the hypothesised explanation.

5). Analyse experimental results .

6). Draw conclusions on the hypothesis and amend the hypothesis if required.

7). Repetition to advance confidence.

There is also an engineering method...

1). Clearly define a problem, including criteria for success.

2). Research information relevant to the problem and any existing solutions (most adjacent prior art).

3). Establishing specific requirements a solution (must do A, B, C, should do X, Y, Z).

4). Conceptualize a range of potential solutions (inventing a device or process to address the problem).

5). Develop detailed designs for the most promising solutions (how to realise the best concept).

6). Building and testing prototypes or models of the designed solution (realising the solution).

7). Test the solution against the specified criteria and constraints (proof).

8). Optimize iterative improvements to the design based on test feedback (continuous improvement)

9). Thoroughly documenting the design process, decisions, and selected solution to the problem (scale).

Science is concerned with clearly explaining nature and the basis of reality. It is truth seeking, if solved it is once and done.

Engineering is concerned with solving problems. It is perpetually competing, an unending cycle of punctuated asymptotes.

This may not seem important to non-technical people, but these field are fundamentally quite different to technical people, they are two very different ways of thinking. Scientists are not trained to think like engineers and engineers are not trained to think like scientists. Both have excellent critical thinking skills and both have knowledge of first principles. Lots of people are very strong at both science and engineering.

Science starts in a fog of ignorance and seeks to land on the single point of truth that exists in the solution space, all other landing points are just wrong.

Engineering starts with a single problem point in a problem space, and seeks to navigate a foggy solution space containing many possible solutions for the best solution of many to connect back to the singular problem.

Scientists discover explanations of nature, engineers invent devices and processes that address problems within that nature. Problems are a fictional creation of humanity, they are not naturally occurring things.

Science is upstream of engineering. Engineering depends on the discoveries of science.

In the 1920's Mathematics was the gold standard for intellectualism.

In the 1930's and 40's it was the scientists (physicists and chemists) who were the gold standard.

Since 1961 it has been engineers. Silicon Valley is built on engineering.

People who invent devices to solve problems are engaged in engineering. Many scientists make great engineers. Even today, academia puts more focus on science and has higher entry requirements for scientists even though it is by and large the engineers who change the world today.

If your child is generationally gifted, as a scientists they might nudge one theory forward by a hairsbreadth. As an engineer they might revolutionise the entire automotive industry, revolutionise spaceflight and revolutionise neural-computer communication.

We live in the age of engineering, we would do well in the UK to recognise this fact, America does, China does, Russia does, Germany does. But in the UK we still think scientists invent high tech weapons, something hasn't happened in 80 years.

Our whole STEM approach needs a collision with reality, we have a Victorian approach to academia. We do not recognise where the value is actually created, this is why all of our greatest post-WWII inventions are stolen from beneath us, moved away to foreign lands and sold back to us at a mark up.

Secondly, just look at how riddle with Machiavellian politics and power clamouring distractions that RVJ recalls. The man literally talks about being a pawn. Do we think Kelly Johnson had such distractions? No. The Americans created a bubble for him to operate in, and Skunkworks still exists to this day.

In the UK we seriously do not understand how to manage and organise technical people at a very fundamental level. We are very bad at it. Fatally bad. I used to think it was the class system and maybe it was for a while. But the problem persists even as the class system fades.

As I mentioned in another blogg comment recently of the 650 MP's that sit in HoC there are exactly 0 engineers. Zero. How is that even possible? Not one person in the Commons has any engineering background. So it is no wonder that all of our defence procurement is an unmitigated shitshow with broken carriers, flopping rockets and defence budgets that leak so hard they goose the inflation numbers and corrupt the Bank of England monetary policy.

We are fundamentally institutionally f****d. It's a HR problem. People, ideas, machines in that order.

Step 1). Get the people. We need leadership with some technically savvy and it's already an existential crisis. Every trillion dollar corporation has a technically savvy CEO. Because... we live in the age of engineering. Not generals, not poet's, not lawyers, not scientists, not doctors, but engineers.

We have zero, literally 0 / 650 engineers in parliament. Just wow.

Eidein's avatar

A thought occurs:

> Bureaucracy was so much lower that many things could be done between 10X to 100X faster and cheaper than now. People could have an idea and almost immediately test it. They could move faster in peacetime than the near-wartime atmosphere of Whitehall in the 2020 covid crisis.

This kind of commentary (to which I am _deeply_ sympathetic) practically screams out for a solution: just put smart people to work and then _stop bothering them_. But as I think this through, the devil's in the details

Let's say it's the current year, and I'm the government, and I need to solve a modern pressing problem akin to "how do I detect incoming airplanes?". Let's say I want to replicate what you're describing, and so I gather up some smart people, give them a budget, and then let them do their thing. I have _no idea_ who I would give that budget to, and I have very little confidence that it would amount to anything.

Why? Well, for one, I know of vanishingly few people who are smart enough to accomplish much of anything significant on a timescale that compressed. Of the people I do know, they wouldn't take the offer. They're already making lots and lots of money doing science and engineering things in private industry, and they would not be interested in taking a massive risk and a massive pay cut to do something like this. Even if they were, I don't think they'd be capable of it. Their skills and expertise are incredibly hyperspecialized, and I don't think they'd have the necessary big-picture thinking to be able to effectively apply their intelligence to a practical problem domain under time pressure. EG the smartest person I've ever met builds secure (in a cryptographic sense) computation environments. She's probably one of the world's experts in this, but, anything outside of that niche and she's going to struggle as much as the rest of us.

But more importantly than this, is the problem of corruption and graft. The government has a lot of resources at its disposal, and unscrupulous people can extract some of those resources for themselves just by talking the right talk to the right government person. And given the stunning lack of accountability in government generally, once they get in, they _will_ get away with it. And the naieve solution of "stop bureaucratic meddling" just reduces accountability _even further_, because any and all frustration around a lack of results is quite literally bureaucratic meddling. For mission-critical problems, how do you even begin to address this?

The most confusing part of all, is that none of these issues are unique to modernity. Corrupt people trying to profit off of the public purse would have been just as big of a problem a hundred years ago as of today. And while technology has certainly progressed, and exploded in complexity, the smartest people being hyperfocused on specific niches instead of being broad generalists is, I imagine, also a human universal. And yet, clearly, this was not nearly the problem then as it was today. What changed? And how do we change it back? I have no idea, but what are your thoughts?

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